I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Pasted as rich text. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. This thread is quite old. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. June 3, 2022 . Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Clear editor. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. Welcome to the forums. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Clear editor. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. "Whiplash" Turbojet. For more information, please see our its rather flat but its a solid surface. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Cheers again fellas. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Paste as plain text instead, Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Your previous content has been restored. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. : : . I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Proceed with caution. More air is better. Thanks for the help! As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. Upload or insert images from URL. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! This works, but it's not optimal. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. Let me. surface of jool. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. You cannot paste images directly. It flames out at 25,000. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. You arent doing anything wrong. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Display as a link instead, 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Isn't that backwards snark? - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? It was meant for low altitude flight. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. rev2023.3.3.43278. Chapter 4. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Content titles and body; Content titles only First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. You can post now and register later. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. You cannot paste images directly. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. The high performance engine for me performs pretty good till about 15000 meter. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. Paste as plain text instead, You can post now and register later. You need to do it with what you've got. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. I don't have that other stuff yet. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Its an approximation missing someelements. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. They will someday, but they don't now. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. Thats my problem right now. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. How can I make money in the new career mode? Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. Display as a link instead, At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Why that? Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage Hello there. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button
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